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Post by Kall* on Oct 18, 2007 17:14:44 GMT 1
Hi.
Since there have been a few discussions concerning medics lately, I thought it might be a good idea to share vieuws on what the actual duties of a medic are.
The term Killer Medic or Rambo Medic is shouted a lot on the servers, mostly to medics who's aim is better then others. That combined with the extra health they have, seems to make them invincible in one on one firefights. I personally hate those accusations, even tho i personally hardly ever hear them.
Now, in my opinion, there's a difference between the medic duties on attacking side or defending side.
When attacking, it's obvious that the medic has to stay within healing/reviving range of fallen teammates (definitely engies!) who are going for the objective. However, i think he should also try to breach holes in the defence by fragging defensive fopses and medics while covering his teammates. Basically, (this will sound controversial) I see it as one of his main duties to BE a "killermedic" and kill as much defenders as he can, as long as it covers his teammates at primary or secondary objectives.
When defending, the medic should stay at strategic points in the map and spread medpacks for the defending engies and fopses, and reviving them if needed. The fragging part isn't as important if he's defending then when he's attacking since fopses, panzers or mines can usually do that far more efficiently. Of course, he will get involved in firefights but still, the healing part is more important imo.
There, this is how i see things... i hope this thread will clearify the mist around the hole medic thing a bit because i feel like this class causes a lot of confusion.
Cheers.
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Post by Ricardus on Oct 18, 2007 19:18:30 GMT 1
What you're saying sounds reasonable enough to me. After all, nobody's saying that the medic shouldn't kill people. Indeed, I have kind of made this distinction myself in earlier posts.
Basically what you're saying boils down to a distinction between:
1. Using the medic's peculiar attributes (greater invicibility, self healing etc.) together with his less peculiar ones (e.g. healing team, supporting engineers etc.) to do the objective. Which is absolutely fine.
2. Using the medic's peculiar properties to play by youreslf and do your own thing (basically; kill, run away, camp spawn area etc. etc.)
I accept that there are sometimes grey areas between them but the distinction is important because behaviour 1 makes the game more enjoyable for those of us who wish to exploit the full playability of this game whilst behaviour 2 makes it less enjoyable from a 'playability;' perspective (after all, the designers of the game thought hard about the playability/team aspects of the game - they made a mistake with the medic class in my view but....)
I can give you an excellent example of playing today where [TL]Sheepy (i think he calls himself) played as type 1 above on the 'Venice' map; camping our spawn etc. His teammates (Selene and Tailgunner amongst others) were shifting classes (Fd OPS, COV etc.) to try and counter what we were doing but getting little (just opportunistic - e.g. I'm near you by accident so; here's a medpac) support from this guy. We won the map easily because of his playing (we just circumvented him)
Now, I think he had the 'highest number of kills' which was not surprising since he camped the spawn all the time (even coming in it at one point) but his team was screwed by his selfish behaviour.
So basically, I agree with what you say and really it boils down to "are you trying to do the objective or not?" if the rest of your team are and you are not then you will frustate everyone.
I don't care about the 'aim' of these people. If their aim is good as a medic then their aim is good as an Engineer. You know as well as I do that the Medic class simply gives these people the chance to shoot, kill, run away, heal etc. and this is lame and spoils the game (rhyme)
I spectated a particular [TL] player today for more than 10 minutes. This is a player who plays usually as...... you guessed it! He ran from the spawn, didn't check or listen to what his team was doing, ran past teammates who he could see (from the health bar above their heads) needed help. Sought out enemies, hid round corners and disputed (duelled really) with people coming from a particular location, healed himself, picked up their guns, went for ammo, ignored what the rest of the team were doing, didn't look to see if anything needed defusing/building/spotting/blowing up .... or anything else. I rarely saw another of his team mates the whole time I spectated him (unless you count those he ran past on the way to his pointless duelling session) Now, there are plenty of places where you can go and play like that if you want. Most of us PLC players find that extremely tedious and boring. I mean, I can't understand
I'm glad to say I've never seen Kall* do this kind of thing.
Ricardus
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Post by Kall* on Oct 19, 2007 7:48:08 GMT 1
I'm glad you generally see things the same way i do. I noticed you are also dedicated to a fair and enjoyable atmosphere on the servers for everyone.
On a side note, it wasn't my intention to make a post about the behaviour of certain (TL) players on the PLC servers. The TL guys are my friends, I respect them and i'll always defend them, but I don't see everything they do on the plc servers so I can't judge about it. that's not my task neither of course. Me and Tail are used to the PLC way of playing, it took a lot of getting used to but i think we're doing fine now. It's just that TL and PLC differ quite a bit from each other and switching from one server to the other isn't that easy (hence Frost* and Sheepy). All i can say about those guys is they are the best players i've ever played with, I learned a lot from them and vice versa. However, that doens't change the fact that everyone who wants to play here has to follow the PLC rules, just like the admins who should do their moderating in an honest and just way.
Anyway, this issue goes beyond the TL story...
Just a few remarks to what you said.
What i meant was that the combination of let's say a > 35 acc + extra health (and opportunity to heal), can make it very hard to kill these guys in one on one firefights. Of couse they'll have the same aim as engy too, but 30hp more or less makes a huge difference. I'm quite sure that when a medic is being a "killer medic" but having an horrible shot, hardly anyone would care / say something about it.
I've already suggested the possibity to disable the abbility to self heal, but - unfortunately - that's not possible on PLC according to IRONMAN. It's a real shame because it would be a perfect solution...
Cheers.
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Post by yourbestfriend on Oct 19, 2007 8:21:36 GMT 1
I totally agree with you guys. I don't mind being killed by a medic in the game, only when that happens when I just leave my spawn area, that spoils my fun indeed. I know PLC is more team-based than any server I've ever played on so it is some kind of getting-used-to for new players on our server. But kall, even u managed it ;D ;D ;D so everyone can  . Take care. Ybf. |
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Post by Ricardus on Oct 19, 2007 8:30:56 GMT 1
Once again, I mostly agree with you. Couple of points;
Neither was it mine to single them out. I'm just replaying a couple of recent examples that people will be familiar with (since they are recent). I could mention 'older' killermeds types but, I can't be sure everyone will know them (e.g. Dragonflame, HEPAN, Foley, Clown, Ragabash etc.) It is completely
true that some of these TL players have been the worst offenders of recent times. Not all of them, however, play as killermedics.
Then, they must be playing a completely different game than what I have seen recently (particularly the Sheepy character) If a persistent killermedic, spawncamper is "one of the best players you have ever played with", my question to you is "how would you know?" since; 1. If they are spawncamping, killermedics (a la Sheepy) you would rarely see them since they would be off killing and B. The only thing you would realistically be able to say is that they were good killermedics, not good players of the game (e.g. can also play engineer well, Fd ops, Cov etc. - as you clearly can yourself)
I question what you could have "learned from them" other than 1. Run out from spawn, 2. Quickly find enemy spawn area 3. Kill them as they come out, 3. Self heal. To learn this would've taken you all of 5 minutes.
Further:
Well, this I think is also untrue. It is true that the killermedic with good aim is more af a nuisance but, I can name plenty of Killermedics who are equally annoying but have a lousy aim (Kimyungil666 is just such a player) He camps the spawn, is relatively easy to kill as you come out (increasingly less easy once his XP score goes up) but essentially, the issue is the same one - he is doing nothing useful for his team. So, you are incorrect. If anything, the reason that the so called 'good killermedics' are worse than the so called 'bad killermedics' is precisely because they should know better. After all, Kimyungill666 (or whatever he's called) is a NOOB. In other words, he's learning the game. These other guys have been playing it a while and; here's the lame bit. They haven't yet got bored of the killermed thing. In other words, they haven't bothered to explore the intracacies of the other classes and their capabilities. This must be terribly boring and shows exactly the mindset of people who continue to do this after months or even (in some cases) years of playing this game.
Ricardus
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Post by Kall* on Oct 19, 2007 9:40:41 GMT 1
Actually, the fact that medics couldn't heal themselves on TL excluded the possibility (or the "fun" for some players) to go out killing as a medic on your own. A medic was utterly useless if he/she wasn't in the company of an engy or another class. No need to tell you that this made teamplay indispensable... Apart from that we also applied the general PRO league rules: sk allowed etc., but that's up to the serverowners of course to decide about.
Basically that's why i have learned a lot from the TL community... We had absolutely no other choice then to work together and as you can imagine, those were some damn good games.
Since that's an entirely different environement (rules, abilities,...) then on the PLC servers, you're right when you say it's a diff. kind of playing then what you might 've seen lately...
I've had my share of difficulties when i first started at this server, and so do the other players have them now. Hopefully we'll all come to point where we accept eoch others way of playing, it'll take effort from the players on one side, and i guess some patience and understanding from the mods on the other side.
We all just want to have some GG's afterall don't we?
I'm glad we can have this discussion in a respectfull, civilised way btw.
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marakatoneskid
Corperal
Do not disturb myself if i play like a crazy monkey because i'll be doing my record remember it ;D
Posts: 57
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Post by marakatoneskid on Nov 7, 2007 14:58:53 GMT 1
I don't think that dissable the self-heal would be a solution because if you do a good medic job (heal and revive in the worst places for your team) you usually must to sacrifice your heal and sometimes your life, if you can't heal yourself you die a lot of times and only can revive 1 or 2 teammates per life, if you can heal yourself, you can support more damage and revive or heal more teamdudes (i think). PD: see u later chuck's returned   |
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